I'm "UPSIDE-DOWN," What Should I Do? Lose $25k?

Being “Upside-Down” in a loan is a phrase most commonly used with car loans. It means that you owe more than the car can be sold for. With cars, if you are in this situation, you have to actually bring cash to the table to sell your car.

So if you have an outstanding loan of $20,000 on the car that you bought for $25,000, and you can only sell it for $15,000, you have to come up with $5k to sell the car. You take the $5k hit now, but save on years of monthly car loans that will far exceed $5k.

Regrettably this starting to happen on a somewhat frequent basis with homes. This did occur in the mid 90’s but was unheard of again up until a year ago.

So a home owner buys a place a year ago for $300,000. Lets say he puts 5% down or $15,000 and the loan is for the remaining $285,000. He buys it as a long term investment, but something went wrong: job relocation, divorce, scary neighbors, whatever. He wants to get rid of it and he is faced with a house that can only clear $275,000 due in part because of the market drop and after darn Realtor fees.

That home owner is now “Upside-Down.”

His options are:

1. Sell the house and literally bring a check for $10,000 to the closing and saying goodbye to the $15,000 initial investment. Total loss is $25,000

2. Hold onto it, rent it out, in hopes of a bounce back. (And then really make a killing, right!)

Most people will go with option #2.

There is something about human nature that makes us feel more pain losing $1,000 than the joy of making say $10,000, which we rationalize as deserving. People would rather fight the smallest loss today, even if that means running it all the way down to bankruptcy.

I’ll focus on Option 2 because that is what most people do, but most haven’t evaluated all the pros and cons of that decision. First of all, you have to realize that you are now in Vegas, and you are essentially doubling down your bet. You aren’t evaluating the current situation (”cutting your losses and running”) and instead you are gambling that the future will be better… eventually.

If you are betting on Red in Vegas, just double down! Eventually you will break even right? Even if you are in for $50,000, Red has to hit soon right? Come on Red!!!

While your Red might hit eventually with real estate, you have to be prepared for the worst.

What is your plan?

1. Holding out for the “Spring.”
Hopefully the market will bounce back and you can then take a lower loss or seek the holy grail… breaking even.
Great, yes the Spring is usually better, but usually during an up market. Last year the winter was horrible and the spring just extended that downward. All the houses that sat in the winter were still there, and for a lower price once spring came. The newly listed houses then had to start with a lower benchmark. So waiting might cause your house to go down another $10k-15k.

2. I’ll just rent it! Easy as that!
Ok, but have you run the numbers? Oftentimes you will have as much as a $400 per month discrepancy between your mortgage and your rent. That makes for about $5,000 a year. After 3 years you are $15,000 behind. If the market rebounds great, but if it stays flat, you are now $15k deeper in debt. What if it takes 10 years to recover? It happened in 1990. Also you can’t just count the sales price, you have to consider all the expenses along the way. Oh and ask your accountant, but the tax advantages that you had while owning the place you lived in are gone.
Also I almost forgot, what about that 5 year ARM that is coming due and you haven’t sold it yet and your mortgage goes up 30%?

3. I’ll live in it.
Ok, but I thought you wanted to get out of the place? Your time horizon better be long enough to ride out the storm. If this is just a 1 year bandaid, you might be even worse off in a year (nobody knows, except the National Assoc of Realtors, NAR, of course!). Also if you have a mortgage of $2,000 and you have the option of renting out a smaller place for $1,000, you have to calculate the $12,000 savings a year (but don’t forget your calculate back in your tax advantages).

For some of you, the numbers might leave you no real choice. If you can’t come up with $15,000 to sell it now, you just can’t do it. But for the rest of you, that are electing not to do it because you feel the pain of a $5k loss (or even $50k) is just too much, just be prepared for a worst case scenario in 1 year or 3 or 10 when you wish that you were only $5k behind.

In my blog on Leverage, The Untold Risks With Buying. There is an example of a lady that lost $150,000 over 250 days, I bet she wishes she cut her losses earlier. She couldn’t believe it could go down that much. This is DC!!

My intention is not to scare or depress anybody. I just want to make sure that you have fully thought out what your options are. I can’t tell you where the market is going (see blog on Realtor’s aren’t stock brokers), but you have to be prepared for all scenarios. I know you will hit yourself if you take a loss and the market recovers, but what would you feel if it didn’t and you had to file bankruptcy?

Most Realtors won’t go over the doomsday scenario of above, but it is real. Our job is to make sure you look at all your options and only you can decide what to ultimately do. If you sense a bit of bias in here, that was fake. I just put that in there to counter balance your preexisting biases.

Also read about a DC condo owner that was Upside-Down in the New York Times: Buyers Scarce, Many Condos Are for Rent “Could he rent the condo? Yes, but that option is not appealing, either. Mr. Murphy estimates that the unit could rent for $4,000 a month, far short of the $6,800 a month the condo costs in mortgage interest, maintenance fees, insurance and taxes…”

What would you like to do now?

- Written by Frank Borges LL0SA- Broker/Owner


  • 16
  • January
  • 2007

20 Responses to “I'm "UPSIDE-DOWN," What Should I Do? Lose $25k?”

  1. Depressed says:

    I’m depressed now.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Great Blog Frank!

    Don’t forget that once you rent out your condo for at least 3 months it is considered a “business” for tax purposes. Thus is one of the only ways to “shelter” a R/E loss — as a business loss not personal loss.
    As a landlord you can also write-off the condo fees and begin depreciating your buy-in cost basis, as another tax shelter.
    However, it is true that the loss will be spread across many future tax years, diminishing its value with inflation.

    Nonetheless, something to consider in a doomsday scenario and something to speak with an accountant about!

  3. Anonymous says:

    I owe 156,000 on my mortgage and 23,000 on a home equity loan. I have been relocated by my employer and have to sell my home. If the relocation company buys my home for market value, I am afraid I will not get the money I need to pay off both loans. I do not have the money to pay off the home equity since the housing market has dropped so much. I can’t rent out the house. What are my options? I am desperate! Any advise you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

  4. FRANK LL0SA Va Broker- BLOG.FranklyRealty.com says:

    Anonymous,
    The reason you can’t find a solution is because there isn’t one.

    How big is your job raise? $5k? $10k? If you are going to lose $20k on your house, maybe it isn’t such a big deal.

    If your raise is $10k and you will lose $5k on your house, maybe you can get your employer to eat the $5k and make your raise smaller for the first year.

    I know you don’t want to rent your house, but you didn’t say why. My guess is you will lose money vs your mortgage. Well $200-$400 a month loss is better than losing $10-$25,000 right?

    You might be able to try a “Short Sale” , google it and sign up for my blog as I planto write about it soon (upper right corner). Problem is banks tend to say “no” to this. A short sale is where the bank takes the loss and lets you sell for less (watchout for the tax consequences). Many banks just say “no” and let it get foreclosed on.

    Also the company buying your home might have some flexibility. Appraisers, if they have a target, can sometimes do wonders.

    Consider negotiating with your employer to “cover my costs” and “buy at my loan amount”

    Let me know if any of that helps.

    And sign up for new spam free posts.

    Frank

  5. Anonymous says:

    Bought my cute little new home a year ago for 255,000. The developer is now selling the same model for 178,999 (with crazy incentives). I didn’t buy a house to make money, and wasn’t worried about fluctuations here and there. I just hadn’t a clue that the value could drop by 30%….leaving me trapped in a house that is so upside down it scares me. If I stay, I pay and scrimp for value that doesn’t exist. If I walk away, my perfect credit is ruined and I’ll feel ashamed for buying at the wrong time. I didn’t get a shifty loan and I can afford my payments-, but I still think about walking away and just renting a room. I made a mistake- so now comes the punishment: the rock or the hard place. I feel like I can’t breathe.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous….I absolutely feel you. My wife and I are in the same boat. I can afford the payments (barely), I just bought at the wrong time. I feel like i will never be able to sell my home at a profit (or break even for that matter). We bought for $310,000, and now it is worth about $240,000. It makes me want to cry…but i am a man and we don’t do that :)

  7. Anonymous says:

    I have a condo that TANKED miserably! I owe 158K and right now the most I can list and get any interest is 115K… I don’t have the difference to bring to the table and an unsecured loan for the difference is also out of the question… I am stuck and have to rent it and hope that somehow I find a miracle lottery ticket for 50K! I just can’t short sell or foreclose!!

  8. Anonymous says:

    I late to the pity party. I live in Florida, a area hit VERY hard. I had made good money off a sale in late 2005, and then waited for the market to “fall” into April 2007 before I purchased a home. I thought I did the right thing. I thought putting down 15 percent was responsible, and my mortgage is a FHA fixed rate.

    Fast forward 1.5 years later, my house has dropped at least $40,000 from what I paid for it, from all estimates. My partner and I would like to move up, but no go. I don’t know whether I should make any improvements to this house. I have thrown enough money into the fire and from all estimates it could be 5 years before things normalize.

    The job market here is awful in my field and I am feeling like things are so slow I may be in jeopardy. I curse my decision to buy the place.

  9. Gram says:

    I need some advise. I am a single grandma raising 2 grand children 3,17,years. I have a developmentally handicapped son who lives with me, My sister and her husband have had to move in with me do to elderly abuse. A Real estate woman,had them sign a power of attorney so she could help them.My sister and her husband are very trusting. She ended up taking off 130K and their retirement,home and car were reposessed. Leaving them to file bankrupts and only $1k to live a month and no place to live (rent is more than that). I am supporting us all. I will be laid off in October 15, do to Citi’s getting out of the mortgage business. Not much of a severance because I have not been here long enough. My home has an adjustable interest rate that is coming due next year. I have asked the lender to give me a modified loan but was told the interest I am paying is as low as they will go (6.75%). They will not adjust the loan price, it is too high at $2300 a month. I owe 340k it is worth only 200k know so I am unable to refinance with some one else to get a lower payment so I can keep my home. I don’t know what to do I am desperate for an answer.

  10. FRANK LL0SA Va Broker- BLOG.FranklyRealty.com says:

    Hello Gram,
    I wish I had a better answer for you. When your loan adjusts, do you know it if will go up. Some loans will adjust to the current marketplace, and that might be lower (maybe not).

    Yes, you will not be able to refinance if the loan is lower.

    I can suggest going to http://www.995hope.org but that might not help much.

    You can also talk to a bankruptcy lawyer as early as possible. I know it costs money, but a good one might be able to help you save a LOT of money.

    Email me directly, as I might have some other thoughts.

    (I AM NOT A LAWYER SO THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE)

  11. Anonymous says:

    We bought our home three years ago in Phoenix area for 311,000, we refinanced once now we owe 325,000, I just saw some online same house down the street from 180,000 to 154,000. makes me sick , really sick! I guess theres much much we can do.

  12. Anonymous says:

    We bought our home three years ago in Phoenix area for 311,000, we refinanced once now we owe 325,000, I just saw some online same house down the street from 180,000 to 154,000. makes me sick , really sick! I guess theres much much we can do.

  13. Anonymous says:

    My husband and I are a little more then 87,000 dollars upside down. And the houses in my neighborhood just keep dropping.

  14. spkatz says:

    Due to the market downturn, we are now nearly $200K upside down on our mortgage (the combination of our first and small second mortgages), and I have been unemployed for three months. We are current on all payments, thus far. And, it’s possible that my next job may be out of state. Thus, what do we do with our current home; walk away and let it go into foreclosure, seek a short sale, seek a deed in lieu, or??? Please advise. Thanks.

  15. dsimk2002 says:

    That was an informative article but I think it still left people up in the air as to what to do. It seemed like the article was leaning towards “take the immediate loss because the long term losses will be greater.”
    OK well I was thinking that way. Where does that leave someone like me that is upside down and doesn’t have $10K to $20K to put in? How would someone like me be able to move out of a 2 BR 2 BA Condo into a 3 BR 2 BA Single Family Residence?

  16. FranklyRealty.com says:

    Rent, Rent, Rent.

    Rent out your place and move into a larger rental.

    Why is everyone so obsessed with buying and then buying some more.

    Frank

  17. Could it be worse? says:

    Based on a late May, 2009 appraisal our house is now worth $200K less than we paid in 2006, and we are upside down about $73K. Wells Fargo is our lender and to my surprise they suggested a short sale. A brief conversation with Wells Fargo short sale specialist revealed they are directing anyone not interested in staying in the house for several years to skip “restructuring” the loan and go for a short sale, and call them when we accept an offer. I had done some research on a mortgage debt relief act passed by congress that would for primary residence exempt us from taxes on the difference between sale price and what we owe. But the real surprise was WF telling me, 1. “commitment met” would be reported to credit agencies, and 2. Wells Fargo would eat the loss and not go after my retirement savings.

    We need to get out of this house ASAP, but we want to avoid foreclosure. I’ve done some very rough calculations in my head and and realized that staying put for 10 years will essentially be like paying $2 in loan interest to recover $1 of home value over the next 5 or 10 years. The basic reality is that the new normal is going to mean very slow property appreciation for the next 10 years. Our mortgage payment is $3100 per month with about $2400 in interest.

    We have friends interested in our house, but I’ve got an uneasy feeling that the Short Sale option could have pitfalls I’m not considering or aware. And I am concerned that no realtor will be interested in a short sale, and I wonder how many times WF rejects short sale offers EVEN if the offer matches current appraisal (I don’t know what Wells Fargo’s tendency is for accepting short sale offers.

    Jon

  18. Trapped in Tempe says:

    I am in the same sinking boat as everyone else. $65K loss! I like the info provided in this blog. The problem is, in the current credit crunch you now need to put 20% down for a home. I can make my current payments, but I don’t have 20% to put down an another home and then hope my old house rents. I feel it will most likely not rent and I will just be faced with foreclosue or a short sale with the bank after me for $65K.

    I have called on the phone and all they will say is “if you dont’ have a hardship, then there is nothing we can do.”
    Is my lender legally required to give me written letter stating they wont reduce the principal or reduce my interest?

  19. Lorin says:

    Yes. I have PLENTY Of hardship. I have been unemployed for over a year and my husband’s pay was decreased by 20K a year ago. We are upside down well over 100K in our condo we bought in 2005. We have been trying to get help from the banks for the past year and because we are current they will not help us. Our condo association wants us out because we have three kids now and there is a strict rule of no more than 4 people per unit. My husband even got “cut” and a year later I am once again pregnant. Even though the loan is under my name the banks wont help bc my husband earns too much. But we are spending more than we make,they just dont consider all the costs with kids. My husband also works 2 hours from home, which is a huge expense. I want to move to another home and stop payment on this condo until the banks decide to work with us, but my husband is scared of hurting my credit and also how it could effect his own credit. Any advice?

  20. Trapped in Tempe says:

    Lorin, I am single, young, and obviously stupid. So many of my coworkers are either filing for bankruptcy or clearing all their debt with bankruptcy. My problem is kind of like yours, but you also have children to care for. Don’t worry about your credit; your familiy’s wellbeing is more important. Go buy or rent a more affordable home, and let the condo go. If you and your husbsand are trully facing a financial hardship then then filing bankruptcy will be “easy”.

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