I am still in shock.
I was looking at a listing online and I saw a link to "Document 1" and a "Document 2."
Amazingly this Realtor had uploaded the Property Disclaimer sheet with their clients' signatures! I'm not talking about on the back end MLS, but on a public website! They probably did it by accident, thinking it was available to Realtors only, but this is horrible.
As if identity theft wasn't bad enough, couple that with a person that has announced that they are moving, and they are perfect prey for identity theft.
I agree with Chuck Boles who taught an NVAR class with me, and suggested to everyone that the property disclaimer (since it has the client signatures) also NOT be made available at Open Houses so that anybody could have the seller's signatures. Instead put "Signature on file, available upon request by Realtor at time of offer."
So is it just me, or is this a major privacy violation?
I am tempted to call out the "Top 5" major company that did this, but I'll restrain myself until they have a chance to fix the issue. If they say they are fine with this, then I will call them out by name.
Update: I reported it to the local Realtor association on Friday at 9pm, and as of Monday at 9pm, the client's signature is still public. I hope they take action and will consider a privacy policy and ask that all agents adopt it.
Homeowners: How mad would you be if you were selling your home, and you found your signatures posted online?
NVAR Realtors: If you think this is wrong, contact NVAR to tell them that if they don't create privacy policies (or at least suggestions) for all Realtors, a few Realtors will give the rest of us a bad name.
Written by Frank Borges LL0SA- Broker FranklyRealty.com
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30 COMMENTS SO FAR. ADD YOUR COMMENTS.:
I've never posted them online (MLS yes, but only agents have access to them there). I never thought about the identity theft aspect of it. This is a good point.
In my neck of the woods disclosures are found in almost every home that has a property handout. Never even thought about it before. Food for thought!
Cheers,
I bet this agent also posted the documents in a manner that they thought only Realtors could see.
I would strongly recommend NOT posting it, even on the back end MLS, since you have no idea who has accessed the file. If you are receiving a contract, then email or fax it to the Realtor.
But posting it for thousands of Realtors, some with criminal records (don't get me started) that is still too risky.
Frank
David,
DC is the #1 place for identity theft.
Why go through trashcans if you can just go to an open house and pretend to be interested.
With all the chaos with moving, nobody will know for months!
Frank
I do utilize 1 property websites in order to help drive more traffic to my Realtor partner's listings, but I'd never post something with an authentic signature on it. You are right in stating that these people are in the process of making a move and would be ideal victims for a predator lurking on the net or at an open house. Thanks for shining a light on this practice.
Our MLS recommends we post disclosures on their system. However, most agents don't. I never really thought of the owner's signature getting in the wrong hands before. I always put the disclosures in the brochure in the home for buyers to take. I might have to reconsider that move in the future.
I had a client who chose their own home inspector once and months later I found the inspection on the internet with all of my client's personal data. I was stunned. I was sure glad it wasn't an inspector that I had recommended.
Never even thought of that - great idea! And a simple one too.
Frank,
Hmmm, must admit I had not thought about it and most agents do make it available. Something to change I think.
Hey Sherry,
Somebody should talk to your MLS to change their procedures.
Also there is a little bit of a chicken before the egg legal issue here in Virginia. In theory if a buyer submits an offer with a disclaimer statement signed only by the purchaser and the seller signs that disclaimer AFTER the offer is made, a buyer might later in court be able to contend that the property was not properly disclaimed before the offer was made.
Kinda confusing, but you should be able to get around that by stating on your MLS that the property is a disclaimer (in Virginia that essentially means that the buyer must be aware and the seller warrants nothing) and if you upload something, black out the signatures and write "Originals available, request them before writting contract."
Frank
Frank,
It is unfortunate that we need to be so scrupulous...but identity theft is a serious and almost epidemic occurrence!!! Nice post! Thanks, Fran
Hey Frank-I don't even put signatures in my listing packet anymore due to the issue with identity theft. Online is just plain DUMB. You shouldn't wait to call the agent and let them know. They are putting their clients at risk and that is not good practice.
I'm with you Frank. I saw this in our MLS the other day and cringed. The property has closed and the property disclosure is there for all to see, for a loooone time. yikes!
I had never thought of this Frank....makes enough sense!
Good point
That's insane! We don't post those kinds of things ANYWHERE. We fax them to an agent who asks for them. By no measn everything belongs on the net.
Whats the point of posting the disclosure with the signature, seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Convenience is the reason for posting them to the MLS. If your client is interested in a home- you can click and print and go....there's no waiting game for an e-mail or fax to see if the house has documented, unseen issues. This post has certainly made me wonder if it's worth it.
Hey Jim,
In Virginia 98% of homes are just "Dislaimed" basically saying, go get it inspected.
And the MLS listing will tell the agent if it has a disclaimer, so having the actual signature might not be necessary to write the offer (some might disagree).
I reported it to the local Realtor association on Friday at 9pm. The document is still up there.
Frank
I see them on the Internet and in homes all the time, but hadn't thought about the identity theft component. I keep a master copy at the home with a note to call me for a faxed copy, but I can see where just a non-signed "desk copy" will do the trick. I email signed copies to anyone who requests anyway. Thanks for the heads up!
Holy Cow! You are absolutely right! I will instruct my agents about not having signed disclaimers,disclosures or lead based paint documents on websites or at the clients' house or attached to listing brochures.
Thank you for making such an important point, Frank.
I agree this is a privacy violation. My agent asked me to provide the signed disclosure so he could put it up online. I immediately said no. Why should I give anyone disclosure information before they've put in an offer? To me, a disclosure form does not need to be provided until an offer is on the table. JMO
I am shocked that any document, with signatures, was made available in such a way.
I totally agree with you that this was a dangerous thing--food the hungry!
Possible lawsuits in store for the agent posting it if identity theft does occur. F. Lee Bailey (rather his prototypes) will have a heyday with something like this.
Hey Tabby,
The thought is "how can somebody put in an offer without knowing what is disclosed as not working."
So in theory, the buyer needs to know what is wrong with the house before they put in an offer
Frank
Oh, wow! I first thought that you meant they intentionally uploaded their clients signatures. But, still, be more careful, people!
I must disagree with you here. In Massachusetts, you can go on http://masslandrecords.com and get all the paperwork on pretty much any home in the Commonwealth. And that includes signatures. So if someone wants it, they are going to find a way to get it anyways.
It takes a lot more than a signature to steal someone's identity... Not only that, but honestly - when was the last time your bank teller actually checked your signature? I've signed checks for a family member serving overseas and my signature wasn't remotely close and no issues (big bank w/good rep). I do think that realtors should inform their clients of their intent to post disclosures online, just in case their client is uncomfortable with it.
Yes there is a 1% chance that the owner knows that their Realtor put up their signature and gave their blessing.
But if I was a betting man, I would give 100 to 1 odds that they did not give their permission.
I know this is probably a mute issues at this point, but I agree, it's a signature, can you even make out the signature, furthermore, it's likely that you will need a whole lot more to actually 'steal' someone's identity. Cool the alarmist behavior, it's already all over the net.
I was recently corrected. The spelling is "moot."
And yes the signature is very clear and of course you can't do anything with JUST a signature. But knowing that the seller is moving soon, those are prime candidates since there is a transition occuring. Yes you leave your signature at the local restaurant when you sign, but couple that with moving and I just say "why post it online."
The main point of this post was for people to know that some agents are doing this. If you don't mind, then go ahead, but why not know about it and approve it first?
Maybe it is just me, but if I found my accountant had posted my signature online, without my knowledge, I'd be pissed.
But maybe that is just me. Hence the discussion for others to say "Yep, it is just you, get over it"
Thank you for your comment.
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